Nicole Huesman: [00:00:00] Shuah, I cannot tell you how, how absolutely thrilled I am to have you here and that we're having this conversation on She Lights the Way today. Thank you for being here.

Shuah Khan: Thank you. Thank you, Nicole, for having me. And this is a great opportunity for me to work with you again and then speak about the things we both like. So yeah, I'm, I'm really happy to be doing this.

Nicole Huesman: Can you introduce yourself and just tell folks a little bit about you and what makes you tick?

Shuah Khan: So my name is Shuah Khan. I am a Linux kernel contributor, maintainer and mentoring also. And I play all these roles at the Linux Foundation as a Linux fellow. I am passionate about sharing my knowledge and contributing to the Linux kernel, which gives me, it keeps me on my toes constantly. It keeps changing. The code base is changing, so it is so exciting [00:01:00] and challenging. So I get an opportunity to learn constantly.

Nicole Huesman: Open source truly has changed the world, and without the open source, we don't have as many opportunities and we can't live without open source. We, the first thing we check is we open the, we, we check our phone, we read our news on our phone, and it amazes me the progress, how impactful open source has been since Linus came out and said, Hey, here is a little operating system I wrote. Contribute to it. And it's, it's so amazing.

Shuah Khan: I am fascinated and proud of the human impact that has had. It also tells us that how important it is for us to continue to keep our software and infrastructure healthy and humming along and without bugs, of course.

Nicole Huesman: Everything from animated movies [00:02:00] to shopping on the web to so many different things. I couldn't agree with you more that open source really powers much of our world today.

Shuah Khan: Mm-hmm. And nobody knows it.

Nicole Huesman: No.

Shuah Khan: So that is the ha that is, I don't know whether I, I want to, I like it or I don't like it because on, on one hand, nobody seems to know that they can't live without it. If everything is working right, nobody knows, you know, what's happening. But, but it's all good though. It's all good. It's all good. I mean, the impact when I see somebody, when I do some research on open source and how it changed lives, and then I see somebody selling shoes, a cobbler sitting on a beach in some someplace in India doing his business with an Android phone. So that's when I go, oh, that is the impact, human impact, of it that we ought [00:03:00] to be really proud of.

Nicole Huesman: Absolutely. And you have been such a dynamic force and really a role model for other women in so many different ways. Can you talk a little bit about what first drew you into software coding, programming, development?

Shuah Khan: So I started out as an engineer. My background is electronics and communications. And the reason I I discovered software engineering, right? When I discovered software and engineering, I recognize that this is, this fits in with my, it lets me use my analytical skills and creative skills. So there is, there are very few, I would say, fields that are, that can lend themselves to beautifully mixing the two [00:04:00] because you, if you do not have analytical skills, it's difficult for you to be a software engineer. At the same time, if you cannot imagine and think creatively, you won't be able to develop good software. So that's what drew me into it and the challenges it offers. I get to use both my creative and analytical sides very well. Blend them together.

Nicole Huesman: So we talked so much about open source software powering our world. What attracted you to becoming a Linux kernel developer and ultimately the first woman Linux fellow, and really, one of the few Linux fellows.

Shuah Khan: Correct. So the journey is long. I started out, like I said, I started out as an electronics and communications engineer. And then I discovered software engineering and how it's a good fit for me.

So, I pursued my [00:05:00] postgraduate degree in computer science. And then I developed a lot of proprietary software at various places. And I have been a kernel developer for a long time. I worked on H-P-U-X-H-P-C UNIX for a long time. I did middleware user space up and down the software chain, which I like moving around. So I started working in open source when I was still at HP, Hewlett Packard. And then I started do working in middleware or Linux middleware supporting some of the HP products. What I realized is when I started working in open source it, it turned out I have been developing software in what we call Agile today, but it's a spiral model for all my closed source development as well. So it seems like I have been able to do that even, I just gravitated towards that. And then I [00:06:00] have had support from my technical leaders and managers for me to explore that. I have had the freedom to say, even, even in the organizations that had waterfall model, right? So I realized, oh, this is what it is. I've been doing this kind of spiral thing all my life, little changes, and then testing little changes and doing all that.

So what really attracts me to open source is collaboration. I am by nature a collaborative person. I like to work with people. I like to collaborate with people on design ideas and brainstorming research and all of those aspects. So that was that an ideal work environment would be for me, a teamwork. So, what more can I ask for when I have 10,000 people to collaborate with from different parts of the world? And so that aspect of [00:07:00] open source, that anybody can contribute for one thing.

You just need a, with the Linux kernel, you just need an email address. Once you have good ideas, once you are contributing, once you are working with the community to improve Linux kernel, that's all they ask for.

So that's where you start, but then you, you have to become part of the community, work with people in the community, work to understand what is important to people. When lots of people contribute to Kernel, they are doing it for say, to improve the pro, they're to improve kernel to support their product line, but they have to do it in a collaborative way. They can't come and say, this is what works for our product, let's put it in there. They can't do that. So that is the aspect of a collaborative development is what makes it makes me, well, keeps me challenged.

[00:08:00] So you asked me two questions. What first brought me to open source? That is because the because I like to work with people and then I, I see the impact of collective coming together and developing, improving products that benefit not just one company, one product, it's for the impact of that on the world.

So I have gravitated towards taking on either by opportunities coming my way from somebody saying, Hey, do you, would you like to do this? I gravitated towards taking on areas of the kernel that really needed attention and work that hadn't been receiving that attention. One of those areas is the kernel validation and testing part. I took on that role because nobody, there was no maintainer for that specific area at the time, and it was languishing. So I took that on and I built [00:09:00] momentum around it, and now it is a very big subsystem. And, so I am proud of that, having brought that, and then test rings. I see that the, I see the test being run in various test rings and then kernel people using it. And then also I just recently found out about a research, a research university looking to run and all the tests that we have in the kernel K self test and K unit, and see how they're working.

So it's, it's, it's just fantastic. Right. So, and then the opportunity came about to come on board as the Linux Fellow to strengthen the community this time. So health of the community. We need a new developers coming into the kernel. Because yes, we have 10,000 contributions coming in, but we, it is also a large code base, two plus 2 million plus lines of code. So we do need to pass the skills and knowledge to the next generation [00:10:00] considering how important it is, Linux is, for the world's infrastructure. So that, that is again, an area that needs attention. And I stepped into that role of filling that role, filling that space, that needed filling, I would say. And what that meant is using all my knowledge of how bootstrapping and figuring out how to contribute to Linux kernel on my own, free time, weekends, holidays, you know, any spare time I had while working full time, raising two children. That kind of makes me the right person to think about in some ways. Some ways think about what kind of a program would work for everybody. Meaning, somebody that is a new student that's coming, they might have a full-time course load that they're doing, they are trying to learn new skills. [00:11:00] And somebody working, they're working, they have a full-time job. They might have family at home trying to balance both and still want to advance their careers and learn something new. So how would you do that?

So and so I think, I think that it, it has been, that's what I've been doing for the last six years while still having fun, contributing and maintaining the kernel. So it's, it's been fulfilling to do, do so, so I would say, so that's connecting the dot, I don't know. Right. I can't give somebody a formula to say mix this and mix that, and you'll become a Linux Fellow. No, I, I think that it's taking risk, taking on opportunities with the, with not worrying about the outcomes and thinking about what can I do to improve the situation or what, what can I do to help?

Nicole Huesman: One of the things that really spoke to me when we were talking earlier was [00:12:00] about how you were guided by your curiosity as well,

Shuah Khan: Right.

Nicole Huesman: and it being, your path being, more a skills-focused path. And I thought, wow, you may not have, gosh, like you were just saying, you know, okay, well if you do this, that, and the other, oh, well, you become a Linux fellow, rather than having a defined path or, or steps to follow, to, to follow your curiosity and to uncover things along your way. And you've truly made such a, a difference. You're leading mentorship at the Linux Foundation. Can you talk a little bit about what that has meant to you, what your perspective of mentorship is and, and being a [00:13:00] good mentor and mentee. I mean, this program has just flourished with, with you at the helm.

Shuah Khan: Right. So you are right about what we talked about, curiosity and learning. I am curious by nature and I consider myself wanting to learn new things. That has been the driving force behind who I am since the beginning if I can connect the dots. So I work on I, I, I'm not afraid of saying it, I don't know, but I want to go and find out what this is about. I'll, I will just say, Hey, I don't know about this, but I'm gonna find out. And then being flexible in changing direction if you need to in pursuit of what you want to learn. So not being very set, or being flexible also helps I think.These three [00:14:00] things I operate on: I don't know, and I want to learn, and I want to share.

So what happens is when you are get the point of sharing, well, I don't know, and then you're trying to learn, right? That's when you need resources to learn. And you are going, okay, who can help? Who can I lean to, who can help me? And who, what are the resources I have? So then I go, okay, I learned this. You know, somebody taught me how to do this. I read this blog and that helped me figure out what, how to do this. So now I figured this out. I want to go out and share that. So as I am sharing it, I figured out, oh, I thought I knew, but I don't know. So it starts full cycle circle and it's like a rinse, what, what, what do they cal it, rinse, lather, repeat, right? So it keeps going.

So I am okay with that. I can live in that state [00:15:00] of a being a per a perpetual learning. And I look at incremental knowledge. I focus on, okay, am I learning? Is my learning graph going up this way? I don't, I don't worry about big spikes that get me to an outcome. I kind of go, as long as I'm happy, I feel fulfilled. I feel like I'm learning something new. I am being challenged and excited in the work I'm doing. I am pretty happy. So I don't focus on outcomes.

So now to your second question of mentorship and what it means to me. It is important to me for multiple reasons.

So I have had mentors all along that have helped me in a official capacity and unofficial capacity as mentors. And I have been a mentor and mentee at the same time. And I still am in some ways because I'm learning. So what I see [00:16:00] is that there are a lot of people that do want to learn and maybe p ursue a different line of work or maybe want, they have dreams. They need encouragement. They need somebody that is championing their, supporting them, in their dreams and in their paths, telling them, Hey, you know what, if you do this, it gets you here, and then you can go here, you can decide.

So mentorship to me is important because it's very impactful. It changes lives. I've been doing this for last six years. Every few weeks I get an email or some mention that somebody, I hear some mentee having gotten their dream job or a research position they have been wanting to get into, or just a, it is just changed their life because some, a few of them said that they would not have been where they are today without if they haven't taken this mentorship. So [00:17:00] that means a lot.

And the other thing is that our open source, we are going to full come full circle back to how the world's infrastructure depends on open source and open source code base. So how do we ensure our communities stay healthy? And it's almost like nurturing the next generation and teaching them the ways, what we learned, what, what we learned through our experiences. So that's, I think the, is very important component of mentorship.

Nicole Huesman: Absolutely. We talk actually quite a bit in our communities about how do we continue this? How do we keep it going? How do we sustain our communities? How do we make sure those communities are inclusive, diverse, [00:18:00] supportive for all of our different skill sets.

Shuah Khan: Absolutely. The diverse ideas that are coming in from our diverse experiences is what makes the, makes the Linux kernel ... The reason for it to, it has come a long way to supporting the world's infrastructure is because we promote diverse ideas coming in. Yes. And diverse regions, different regions have different needs. I talk about this, I know we talk about diversity, gender diversity and racial diversity and all of, so diversity of thought, I think is at the core of it. The reason for diversity of thought is because we are all different. It could be our skin color, it could be our backgrounds, it could be our ethnic backgrounds, it, whatever it is. We are different and we experience the world in a different way because of those differences. And then bringing all of those [00:19:00] ideas of our different experiences and pouring them into into open source projects is important because that's what makes them serve needs of everybody.

Nicole Huesman: One of the things that also. I, I found so insightful in one of our earlier conversations was when you described yourself as a reluctant leader. Can you talk a little bit about what that means to you?

Shuah Khan: So, reluctant leader means different things to different people. Somebody, some people might understand a reluctant leader to be somebody that is not confident in their skills, and that's why they're afraid to take a take on a role of leadership. In my case, I don't think, it's not that. It's not that. I stem from a different kind of reluctant leader role, meaning [00:20:00] I recognize when I see something that's not being taken care of. When I see something that needs attention to that nobody's showing interest in or stepping up to do, I, I feel like I can't walk away from it. And at the same time, allowing others to contribute freely. Saying, this sphere is mine, everything has to go through me, that's not my style. So I would open it up and say, contribute.

So my so what I would say is reluctant leader in that sense that look filling in the, filling in and stepping in where I see a need to improve the kernel or improve a situation or improve something. I don't seek out to be a leader, I would say that. So that's not the outcome I'm looking for.

Nicole Huesman: You lead by [00:21:00] truly by example. I think of so many different people in the community and you've been such a role model to so many of us. One of the other things that I think is unique is your concept of working yourself out of a job rather than making yourself indispensable. Can you describe that for us and talk a little bit about your philosophy there?

Shuah Khan: So I like, I think I mentioned this, that I like challenging and exciting work. I want my work to be challenging and exciting, and then I want to be learning something new. I just have this desire to to learn about something I don't know. Because I seek out challenging and exciting work [00:22:00] that I like to do, I want to do, I am passionate about my work. That means I feel like I have the responsibility to leave the work to continue and thrive after I'm done with it. So, or if I, when I leave, I don't want that work to languish and I don't want to be the only sole expert in doing something. I would like to, again, that goes back to being, wanting to work with others. So I want to leave something. If I am leaving something for somebody, I want them to say, oh, okay, she has done a good job and we can see what she has done and we can continue this. So that's a job well done for me, job well done is successful, meaning that it can survive without me.[00:23:00]

Nicole Huesman: You've cleared the way for so many of us, and I know there are some difficulties or some challenges that come with working in a more male-dominated world and a more male-dominated industry. Can you share some of the challenges that you've experienced along the way and how you overcame them.

Shuah Khan: Absolutely. So. I have been, yes, I have probably I'm the only even now in, in some cases I'm the only woman at the table in any of the meetings or conferences and so on. So is it a challenge? Yes and no. It just depends on, I think, how we look at it. I'm not minimizing others, the challenges for others. For me, [00:24:00] it is a challenge to overcome when, when somebody tells me you can't be at the table, I'm like, okay, let's see. You can't tell, you can't tell me. I'm, I'm not, I don't belong here. So what makes me not belong here? So, I go in with the approach off. I flip the label off. People look at me and go, I'm an engineer. No, no, I'm an engineer. Happens to be a woman. There are other engineers who happen to be male or other engineers who happen to have some other identity. It does not define me. I am an engineer to begin with. So that's how I have taken my career too. So I think when I walk into a room, I don't worry about how others, the only thing I worry about is what am I bringing to the table? What strengths and weakness as I'm, I mean, I'm also bringing weakness, but I, what strengths I'm bringing to the table? What can I [00:25:00] contribute? As opposed to let others define me, I define myself.

Nicole Huesman: You've always been comfortable in your own skin.

Shuah Khan: Right.

Nicole Huesman: How have you achieved that or, or what advice would you give to others? And what are some of the lessons that you've learned along the way?

Shuah Khan: Mm-hmm. So yes, I am very comfortable in my skin. I do not know, I'm not expert on nature versus nur nurturing this space, whether to say if it's my nature or it's nurture, but I do know that my upbringing and my parents have played a huge part in that. So both of them told me that I could do anything I want, if that's what I want to do. They haven't defined a box for me. They have never said, Hey, you can't do this. My [00:26:00] mom in some ways went the other way in saying, if society expects you to you to do that, you don't have to do it. You do what you want to do. So that helped me. I guess, if I already had the na nature of being comfort comfortable in my skin, my environment really nurtured that. It's not like I don't care what people think, but I don't let others define me. That's the way to look at it. I kind of go, this is who I am. I am very comfortable in myself.

The challenges that come with it is that you're not going to be a friend of everybody, and you have to be okay with that because there are a lot of people that would expect you to behave certain way or do certain way. There are people that won't like me, but I should be okay with that. I can't, I mean, you can't expect everybody to like you, so you have to be okay in saying, this is who I am and this is what I bring to the table [00:27:00] and this is what I have to offer and take me, accept me.

Nicole Huesman: Yeah.

Shuah Khan: And if people that accept me will be with me and people that don't will just fall off, right? I mean, you can't really do anything about that, and you can only control yourself, not others.

Nicole Huesman: You know, one of the things that I was really surprised to learn, a bout you, Shuah, is that in addition to all of what we've talked about so far in terms of all of the different things that you're, you're doing, you're also a writer,

Shuah Khan: Yes,

Nicole Huesman: and I love that you're, you're doing some of this legacy writing for your children. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Shuah Khan: Yes, absolutely. I have dabbled in writing for quite some time, probably since my childhood and some in college and everything. I [00:28:00] let that languish for a long time and I realized that I transplanted. I'm a transplant. I transplanted myself in my twenties and came to a totally new country and new culture and I am com very comfortable in different cultures. But as a result, the downside of that is my children have grown up away from their culture, the culture country of my origin, and they haven't seen their grandparents very, very much. That they don't, I don't know that if they can have a, an understanding of who I am, what my origin story is, and how my childhood was and what shaped me, all of the experiences that have shaped me to be who I am. Speaking in my own words, talking about my experiences, my memories, people in my life, my grandparents, great-grandparents, and writing about all of that is one way I can [00:29:00] pass the knowledge and then also speak to, not just my children, my grandchildren and maybe others that come later, the future generations. So they know, okay, our, you know, great-great-great grandmother wrote, left these for us.

Nicole Huesman: Yeah. Can you share a little bit of that with us in terms of maybe experiences and people who have shaped who you are today?

Shuah Khan: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So I talked about my parents already, that they encouraged me and they surrounded me with things to, to not just give me that curious thing, the, the bug. I will call it a bug, curiosity bug. And then also providing all the resources to satisfy that.

So the others that have done that is my grandfather. He was a lawyer, and [00:30:00] he collected so many books. His library was just full of books. So it opened my world to so many things. I would read. I learned about Id and Odyssey back when I was 10, 15, 10 years or nine years old, nine, eight or nine years old. And he had several friends that would come in the evenings and talk to him. And he would recite, he could recite poems. He would be just reciting poems in our native language. And then some of the people that he were friends, they would come and discuss philosophy, discuss all sorts of things with him, topics, serious topics with him about literature, philosophy and history. And history, by the way, is one of my passions. I read about history. I like to get very old books that were written, translations of very old books. I have one sitting there. It's [00:31:00] written 5,000 years ago. And so I, I read, I read whatever I can get my hands on. So my grandfather's library was the best gift for me. That opened my world to me.

And there is my uncle, my father's brother. He was the one I think that told me that, just be yourself. People will, people that don't like you will learn to accept you because he started med school and he's a jogger. He will wake up in the, at four 30 in the morning and then jog, right? So initially he was jogging and everybody was looking at him. Everybody was opening windows, and then he was like. Who cares. And after that, they forgot all about it and then he kept jogging. So, so that's what told me. Okay, so that's good. You just mind your business and do your thing and you know, don't worry about noise, don't worry about, about, you [00:32:00] know, block the noise and keep your eye on where you are going and you'll be fine.

Nicole Huesman: It occurs to me, you have such courage in defining, you know, that you define who you are and what you want others to see, and courage in, you mentioned before having the courage to say, I don't know, but let me go find out, right? It sounds like your courage then came from him, from some of his, your interactions with him earlier in life. Would, would you say that's that's true?

Shuah Khan: Yes, yes, yes. And my yes, he, some of those that, that just stayed with me. He, he said, somebody asked him, so do don't people look at you weird? And he said, yeah, they might, but, you know, I want to jog in the morning. so, so [00:33:00]

Nicole Huesman: So

Shuah Khan: that stayed with me. That stayed with me, you know?

So they, I have, have, I have lots of those kinds of experiences. I mean, when I'm writing these things, now I'm remembering all of those and I'm going, I'm connecting to the dots to see how people shaped me or how the, in the important influences on how I came to be. So that has been another perspective. And then learning while I'm writing my legacy writing. It is very fulfilling in some ways to going back and writing about all of that.

Nicole Huesman: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it seems to me that it would help you know yourself better.

Shuah Khan: Yes, yes. We don't grow without introspection, and we, you are right about courage. You have to have courage to go and examine yourself and say, well, we are going to find good things. We are going to find ugly things. It's like. [00:34:00] Moving a bed or something. You're gonna find dust underneath, right? Or other ugly stuff. But you have to have the courage to face it.

Nicole Huesman: Yeah. And, and the reality is that all of these different things have shaped you. It's not just the positive experiences, but it's the amalgamation of all of those things that have put you where you are today. So, yeah. Yeah. Even, even the dust bunnies, right?

Shuah Khan: Even the dust bunnies. So if I may we have

In Telegu, we have, we celebrate Telegu New Year, similar to Chinese New Year. It comes around springtime, March, April time. It's a lunar calendar. When we celebrate the very first day. Usually there are mangoes green mangoes that have just full of mango trees are full of green mangoes. And then we have name tree with beautiful blooms. And then we have a sugar cane, fresh sugar cane come, coming out. [00:35:00] And then they make fresh jery. It's a brown, just they take the sugar cane juice, and then they boil it down and then they, that becomes jery, which you can find in stores. We use that in cooking a lot. And then salt and salt and pepper. And then so they mix all of that and then make, they make a chiney to eat. So you have bitterness, you have tartness from the mangoes. You have bitterness from the ne It is bitter by the way. Then you have the sweetness from the jare, and then they will add tamarind and salt.

So that is life. I do think that our negative experiences and mistakes teach us a lot more than positive experiences. If we, everything is working for us, we are not really learning anything. So to be successful in life, we have to experience we have to make mistakes, we have to experience failures, we have to setbacks, and we have to learn [00:36:00] how to overcome them.

Nicole Huesman: Oh, that's so true. Growth happens in those, those painful parts, right? It's it's that, yeah. Yeah.

Shuah Khan: Exactly.

Nicole Huesman: Yeah, absolutely. Wow. So of all of the different experiences that you've had, what do you think has been the most rewarding or fulfilling?

Shuah Khan: So, it's hard to pick one. It's really, really hard to pick one. I have been fortunate to, to be able to balance my work life, raising two children, having a career, full-time, career, career, and having a partner that supported me in my dreams. So you have to have champions in life and I'm happy that I have them.

Nicole Huesman: Oh, support systems are so important, right? Yeah. I, I feel so thankful for whether it's been mentors and [00:37:00] champions along the way, or family, my partner, now husband, to have a support network around you is so vital.

Shuah Khan: Another thing I have to say is that, yes, support doesn't mean that yes, oh, you're doing a great job. People challenging me, asking you the right questions, asking you to think outside the box and challenging your assumptions is very important. I have several mentors along the way question my assumptions, ask me to take that risk, take that step, think outside the box. My managers, my teammates, anybody I looked up to, and most of all open source, they keep questioning me all the time.

Nicole Huesman: Oh wow. Gosh. So you've just, yeah, you reminded me of my father who always challenged my sister and I to think about what do you [00:38:00] wanna do in five years or to think bigger than maybe we were thinking of for ourselves.

And then I'm also reminded of likely my best manager ever, who's still a dear friend. And it was when I was first coming into open source actually, and open source was likely the ramp into open source was one of the most difficult things. And she didn't, she was one who didn't share the answers. She let you come to the answers. And that was so vital, that was so key to my growth during that time. And it was one of the most one of the most uncomfortable periods, but it was because I was growing so much.

Shuah Khan: You know, the definition of [00:39:00] success changes for each one of us over over time. What does, what does success mean for you at this point?

Hmm. Good question. Success really to me is job well done. Whatever that is. It's not an outcome for me. It has never been. Sometimes the definition of success changes, but for me it has always been, I think, job well done and the nature of job does change. Maybe at one time I wanted to become a kernel developer. And after that I wanted to become a community member, which I have, I mean, Linux community, kernel community, I mean. And then there are no goals really. And then I wanted to be part of the community and I have the community now. And it is job well done, really, no outcomes. I have just don't look at outcomes. Meaning outcomes are [00:40:00] they come. It's the journey that's important. I go on this journey of learning new things and sharing them and then being collaborating with others and just having fun. And the outcomes. Outcomes are outcomes.

Nicole Huesman: What advice would you give to others from both personal and professional perspectives?

Shuah Khan: They might be one and the same. That is be true to yourself. Know your strengths and weaknesses and then play to your strengths and improve where you can with your weaknesses, of course. And then don't let others define you. There is no point in doing that because nobody knows you better than you know yourself. And speak for yourself, advocate for yourself, and find people that support you that would help you along the way. And respect the advice you get from various people. And then [00:41:00] try to learn from others. That's more important, right? So many people can teach you so many things. And I have learned from my mentees. I have learned from my managers. I have learned from my teammates. And I have learned from people in my life, family. And they all teach you something. And my children, boy, they teach, they question me all the time. And then constantly keep me on my toes teaching me something new.

Nicole Huesman: So Shuah, as we close today, what does She Lights the Way mean to you?

Shuah Khan: So She Lights the Way means to me that this is something that mentors and people in my life have done for me is helping people see their potential that they might not think that they have, or strength that they might not recognize they have.

Nicole Huesman: Well, Shuah, you are certainly lighting the way [00:42:00] for so many of us, and I, I thank you for that, and I thank you for spending your time with us today.

Shuah Khan: Thank you, Nicole, this has been great talking to you and talking about open source, talking about what we are both passionate about is is, is, thank you for this opportunity.